02-02-21 – Elsie
Q: Lana – Which Libsyn link do I use in my post in LinkedIn is the is the one for direct download, or is it the other one, which is the permalink?
Q: Is there any way to change the individual artwork for on Apple for your particular guests?
Q: When it comes to guests, does anybody else share their downloads? And if so, if they’re not a lot, how do you know? How do you frame that? So that you’re managing expectations of someone who is expecting maybe hundreds if not 1000s?
Q: I find a lot of my listeners on Spotify, how would I increase that area? Or a demographic or region? How do I make sure that I’m in more of the androids?
Q: On YouTube, are you only linking the audio of your podcast?
Elsie Escobar 0:30
I was just I had the lights off. And then my lips were
Unknown Speaker 0:37
Elsie Escobar 0:41
What are you guys doing Jenny and Jess? Why are you here?
Jessica Kupferman 0:47
No, Jenny was gonna be here. I just thought I would be supportive and see what happens when you shower.
Elsie Escobar 0:53
You’re so sweet. I had the light off and I and with the light off. I had my lip I put lips on and I forgot that I did that. So yeah, I looked really weird. I looked like I was some kind of weird scary looking.
Jessica Kupferman 1:14
We should just put the zoom thing on at least I have eyebrows and lips.
Unknown Speaker 1:18
Well, I have lips now but Oh,
Unknown Speaker 1:21
but those are your Actually no, no, no,
Elsie Escobar 1:23
these are not my actual lips. These are the fake lips.
Unknown Speaker 1:25
Those are zoom lips. Okay,
Elsie Escobar 1:27
let’s do lips. I love
Unknown Speaker 1:31
Unknown Speaker 1:31
Elsie Escobar 1:34
Zoo lips. Oh, look and antlers. So I’m Hey, listen. Whatever makes us happy. Correct. This is all great. And yeah, so my hair. So yeah, I just looked like I just get out. Get out of the shower. Cheryl, good morning. You’re having a late breakfast? Yeah, I am. I think I had a very early breakfast and I forgot lunch and I was starving. And then I thought, oh my god, Do I have time to eat? I did not have time to eat. Oh, look, Jess, how are you guys doing that?
Jessica Kupferman 2:12
In the filters before you get to the studio effects, there’s all these goofy little faces you can put on yourself. Like that. For that for that? This one I think fits the best probably. Oh, no, wait, it’s probably this one. Yeah. This is out of control. All right, you’re right. I’ll stop. It’s just this is the Elsie show. I don’t want to
Elsie Escobar 2:44
some background stuff. All right, everybody looks so nice to see everybody here today. I didn’t get any questions. So I was like, at the last moment, one of the things that I wanted to do that I I’ve been wanting to do forever, and I thought oh, this would be a really great time to do it is to walk through podcasts in this way.
Jessica Kupferman 3:04
I think you’d have a question. Hello,
Elsie Escobar 3:06
Lina. You do have a question?
Unknown Speaker 3:08
Unknown Speaker 3:08
Jessica Kupferman 3:09
Did you did you get it from her? Or can I your let me send it to you. Oh, I’m gonna put it in the chat for you. It’s let us okay. I don’t know why I thought you saw it came to info but maybe you missed it.
Elsie Escobar 3:22
Maybe I missed it. Oh, it’s the Spotify thing. The thing about the stuff in the LinkedIn and it has the image and it’s a pain in the butt. And it’s annoying. How cute are your nails? There you go. There it is.
Jessica Kupferman 3:36
She’s always very cute. Okay, yeah, that’s your question.
Elsie Escobar 3:39
Yeah, that’s right. Okay, so here’s the question everybody. This is from Lana. She says my podcast is an interview podcast and I do episodes show art for each episode, the various social media channels have tendency to change their mind if they allow new episode artwork or not. And that would be in cross posting, that would be cross posting. Correct. My biggest problem right now is LinkedIn. It in that channel, it is all about pictures and familiar faces. And for a while now I’ve had a show artwork displayed that might be good for marketing perspective for the show, but I want it to be the episode art. And that doesn’t happen when I released a new episode through destinations in Lipson, which is my host. So today, I decided to not release the LinkedIn via my Lipson account, but to use social be and post on LinkedIn. Copy the same photo as I would have done through Lipson and it worked, however, and this is my question, which Lipson link do I use in my post in LinkedIn is the is the one for direct download, or is it the other one, which is the permalink. But by the way, Lina, actually, I think, I believe that there are three links. And I think that the three links are the permalink the download link, and there is the directory link, which are all Hi, Tina. Hello, everybody. So this is a really important question, I think for everybody. In fact, it’s it goes, it’s right along the lines of what I wanted to share prior to this, which is what I was talking about earlier in sharing how all the different platforms do what they need to do. So the question is not about which link is the best for as in the ones that you see in there. But the question is, what’s the easiest link for your people? For them to actually listen to the episode? Okay, so have you Lena, I’m putting you on the spot. Have you been in LinkedIn yourself? And link and click through the links that you’ve shared in the past? For your episode?
Lena Gothberg 5:54
No, but I have got feedback that people are actually listening through linked in, which is so
Elsie Escobar 6:03
bizarre and weird. Yes, gotcha. So here’s how I would play that, because this is really intriguing feedback. Number one, people are actually listening in LinkedIn. And if that’s the case, when you were sharing your episode link, then you need to if they’re using LinkedIn to do that, then you can share the mp3, that would be the traffic.lipson.com URL. So it’s the same URL for the download and the permalink. In Lipson, for those of you who have Lipson, I think that this might be something that you know about if you don’t have Lipson, most podcast hosts have a direct download link. And you can use that. So that would mean that somebody is listening to Lena show by simply clicking that link, and it starts to play. And that’s either on LinkedIn, or maybe they have a browser open and it’s playing. Okay, so there’s that aspect of it. If she’s gotten feedback that that’s the thing, then, hey, give them the download link, because that’s the easiest, my biggest concern about sharing that download link is the behavior, especially if you have like a longer, like a longer show like a 60 minute show. Of what happens when somebody’s listening for me what’s been happening in the past, whenever I find in a show, and I start to listen in that way, I’m either interrupted, I, the the phone actually turns off, you know how it like it goes into sleep mode. And if it goes into sleep mode, it stops. Some apps stop working. And so then I go, oh, how come the audio stopped, I have to go find it. And sometimes it restarts. And sometimes you open up the thing, and I don’t know if you’ve ever done this, but like when you’re on Facebook, and you’re scrolling, right, and then you find something that you love, and then you tap through it, or you finally get it in somebody’s like, you know, calls your attention. And then you by accident, tap it with your hand, or even when you’re scrolling on the screen, and then the feed goes really fast again, and you completely lost your place of what you were scrolling on. And then you’re like, what, where was that blank. And then you have to sit there and scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, trying to find it again, like we want to avoid that when listening to a podcast. And so what am i what i challenge you with there, Lena Is that you, you can do that you can do a post with that direct link to have that. And then maybe you can have a different post that has an easier way for them to do the same thing where they can subscribe. What would that be a Spotify URL for that direct episode? Because it’ll be in their in their actual app, and they can follow up. That could be it could be something that you test based on maybe your website, is it if you press your website, what does it take for you to actually listen to a show? Right? In fact, for those of you who want to play if you want to play around here, let’s see if we can all do this. And somebody put your latest episode, link your permalink for your website, on in the chat for everybody. And then we will get our phones and we will click through for those of us that are or if you’re on the phone if you’re like if you’re on a computer, go ahead and click through the computer and then see what it takes for you to listen to that to that episode there. So we have repros trapped by fight back. And then I just tipped on through that her latest episode. Look at that there’s a gigantor player like right in her in my face and It immediately can start to play. I don’t know if you guys finish or hear that. So when it comes to when it comes to that stuff, that’s what you have to start to think about.
Whenever you are sharing a link, so for me, the way that I like to look at this is what do you want them to do? There are some times when you want people to listen to the episode, right, then there are some times that you want to let people know that you have a show. Hey, I have a, you know that the shipping podcast exists. It’s a show that interviews, people from the maritime industry, and I let my latest episode is this one. Here’s a link to the website, and you can find how to subscribe or whatever. Or you can, you know, you can do something like a Spotify or you can do one of those pod links, you know, pod dot link links, where it goes into that one place. So you have to think about it from that perspective. And I understand what you mean, when it comes to the episode artwork. I think that there’s a lot of podcast apps that support it, there’s some that don’t support it. There’s stuff that happens all the time when even the social media platforms don’t actually pull the appropriate, all the things everything. But what what it does do for you as somebody who follows you is that when you change it around, it does matter. Meaning when you’re changing around the stuff, people are gonna see that there’s more things that you’re it’s not the same episode. It’s a different episode. So, yeah, and it’s there’s a different behavior when people click through via the phone than via the computer. Think about it from that, from that point of view there. Did anybody look at you guys with all of your links here? I love seeing all of these things. So did anybody learn anything? When you guys click through there? Was it something that you’re like, Oh, my God. How annoying? No, I mean, you’re not gonna be like saying that to each other. But did you learn anything from clicking through through yourselves? There loves?
Unknown Speaker 12:14
Yeah, I, you know, I followed each link and it took me right straight to the page. And everybody very wisely has a big player at the front and at the top boy done. You know, I didn’t I didn’t know doing it on my laptop, but did not try on the fame.
Elsie Escobar 12:27
Yeah, so we have to think about it from from the user and perspective. So what would that look like? Okay, so let’s try that. And see if you can find the URL. If somebody wants to mess around a little bit looking for a link to the URL of your show. If you can find it quickly. You can put it up, put it in the links there. And if anybody is watching, or using a phone, or an or an iPad to sign in today, see if you can test it out and see what happens when a link is shared, just just for your own learnings. Because when we start to understand the behavior of our listeners of how we can actually get somebody to listen to our show, it really informs how we say what we say about whatever platform, particularly if you know it, and you know what it’s going to do when you click that button when you tap on that link. Oh look, it says now you can send nonverbal feedback. Yes, go faster. What does that even mean? anyway?
Unknown Speaker 13:44
I don’t know.
Elsie Escobar 13:45
I don’t know what that means. Okay. Let’s see if we have some the Christmas episode. Look at that you guys are doing there we go. Let’s like Billy Lena. Put her out there. That’s really fast. You have a good host, Lena. It immediately started playing right away.
Unknown Speaker 14:10
There was no waiting.
Lena Gothberg 14:12
That’s awesome. Yeah, but it gets like a black just like a black screen.
Elsie Escobar 14:17
Yes. It’s just a black screen. Correct.
Lena Gothberg 14:19
And that does scare my ugly men off. And that’s okay.
Elsie Escobar 14:28
Yeah, for sure. And that’s something for you to think about. It depends on your audience. If somebody clicks through your URL, your mp3 they’re gonna start to listen to the show right away. But is it going to be like what is what? What is this that’s playing right because it does open as you can see inside of a browser screen when it starts to play the episode. So what does that do to somebody when they’re when they’re, when they’re like on the go moving around? Is that going to be a little bit scary for them? I don’t No, it’s up to you. I know what that looks like if I hit an mp3 link, and therefore I know what to do with that. But I’m glad that you asked that question right now, because I don’t know. Anybody else have any questions about that or want to follow up or maybe expand on what we were talking about when it comes to what link to share? And then I’ll go back to Elena. I do not see anybody raising their hand or anything. So Elena, what have you learned today? I mean, in terms of making a decision, right,
Lena Gothberg 15:42
during this call, or during the entire day, because I got so many things I learned today,
Elsie Escobar 15:47
there is there are many lessons that sometimes we have during the entire day. But what did you learn from the question that you asked and how I went around? Excuse me? Why didn’t anybody tell me that I have a cookie thing on my nose? That is not okay. That’s not appropriate. Okay. Go ahead. And
Lena Gothberg 16:06
to make it different posts in LinkedIn, more than one? Yeah.
Elsie Escobar 16:13
And see what happens with that, for sure. Because you also, here’s the other thing, and I don’t want to disappoint you, folks. Sometimes, people will click through like, I actually clicked through our own my own ID that often, to double check, when it comes to just quality assurance like that people are receiving this stuff. So I clicked through my own posts. When I listened through, I also click through people’s posts, when something calls my attention, and I go, Oh, I, that looks like an interesting episode. And I will click through and I will listen for like, you know, a little bit like 30 seconds to a minute, depending upon what if it catches me. And either from then on, I either just lose interest. Or, I go ahead and I subscribe to the show or listen to it so that I can take it with me. So given that behavior, sometimes when people are clicking through to that direct mp3 link to that direct download link, then it might be reflecting folks that are doing that tasty bites right there. They’re your tasty bites, that is exposure. But it’s not actually building audience. Those are two separate things. And I’m not saying for you not to do that, because sometimes it is a tasty bite, you just want a tasty bite you somebody just is gonna listen to a minute. And that’s okay. They might listen to one minute of your show for three or four or five, five different times, and they’re not going to listen to your show or subscribe to it outside of that, but then they will. So sometimes they’re going to taste for a long time, and then they’ll do it. So it’s all right. But what I don’t want you to think is that sometimes when you post that direct mp3 link, that it’s reflective of your core audience, that’s different. I hope that that makes sense. And if you want me to go through that more, that’s Thank you.
Lena Gothberg 18:13
Yeah, because I saw today that I’ve got almost 2000 people looking at that post. But nothing is happening in the statistics on downloads. It’s the same as it usually is, like, 750 people have listened to it. Uh huh. So I understand completely what, what you mean.
Elsie Escobar 18:31
Yeah, so and so you have to start to think about whenever you do any of your marketing, there’s a point when you’re getting the word out, or it’s really just about visibility, it’s about getting it is about just letting it Oh, here’s this little thing, and then you being reminded that your thing is there. For me in LinkedIn, specifically, I have a really like, I think I’ve picked the folks that I listened that I follow in LinkedIn. I don’t know, it’s a completely new group of people to me that I that I don’t really follow in other social places. It seems to me that I tend to do that in a lot, all the different social media. And then when I go into LinkedIn, I see a lot of people posting about their podcasts that I am actually very interested in. Like, I’m Oh, there’s another show. And I always forget to SUBSCRIBE until I don’t. And sometimes it takes me a couple of months because I don’t really go into LinkedIn very often. But now I’m listening to other shows or I’m aware of other people’s shows that I’ve downloaded one of their episodes and listened to them Finally, and I’m really happy that I did. And I haven’t had an opportunity to, you know that it’s taken me a while to be able to do that. So it’s okay. But again, you have to start to manage what is actually going to be making these people, your listeners. And I think the harder question is this one? Is it okay? If they don’t such To show they just love your work, but they’re not subscribed your show? Yeah,
Lena Gothberg 20:06
I’m building my brand in there. So I got some people who’s asking me for advertisement and so on. So they see who I am interviewing. And they think I’m important. I’m not important, but they think, because they see that in LinkedIn. And they see that 2000 people have just, you know, looked at it and say, yeah, yeah,
Elsie Escobar 20:28
yeah. So it does build it.
Lena Gothberg 20:30
But I don’t want them to go to black page,
Elsie Escobar 20:33
you don’t want them to go to the black page. That’s right. I mean, there are and there’s another link down. There’s another link inside of Lipson, and I’m sure, again, that this is also available on other podcast hosts, that is the directory link, like the directory link is, is different, because it does land in a page where it’s optimized for listening. But again, the issue with that is that they’re only going to be there to listen to that one episode. And it’s not really optimized for anything else. So there have been times when I do share the directory. But it’s not my favorite. If I’m going to be doing that I would rather send them to the website, the website is I think on par with that where you if you have the player right at the top, it’s going to be great. I see Cheryl shared her 19 stories UI like podcast, the apple.com URL in the chat. And what I want us to do, especially again, those of you who have a, an iPhone, I want you to click through and I and I want you to click through via the iPhone or the Android, if anybody has an Android device in our and can see that link. Click through. And also those of you who are on the computer, click through, I want you to see what that behavior is for somebody when they click through. Because now days, it has been slightly more optimized so that you see 19 stories, it’s her landing page, where it is the entire, you know, the entire show the entire podcast there. One thing that is now different for Apple podcasts, particularly in the web version, which is what popped up here is that there is no backlinking to individual episodes anymore. Meaning excuse me, individual website, the individuals websites, it used to have the option where right below the artwork, there was a link, where people could go into the the website of the person, whatever, whatever you put into when you submit it into Apple podcasts, it was there, it no longer is there. So now what people have is just exactly what you see right in your face here, which is fine. It’s streamlined for consumption. There are two separate ways for people to listen when you’re on the computer or whatever on the phone. And that is obviously to play right here. But if you do get an opportunity to click through one of the episodes, that’s when it expands a little bit more. the play button is very, very small. As you can see on the if you are on the on the on the website, on the web browser, the play button is on the bottom right of the left hand of the screen, which is kind of annoying. And then this one does have an episode website. If you do click straight through it. And you can see and you can go to the actual episode inside of her website, which is nice to be able to see that in there.
Unknown Speaker 23:48
Yes, see, I’m not thank you so much for your feedback. I had originally posted my 19 stories.lipson.com link Hmm. One of the things that drives me crazy about Apple is not being able to individualize the artwork, because yes, my episodes have the featured guest with their picture in their business with their business name is etc. And so that drives me crazy with Apple, so, but I was looking everybody else else’s link and I thought well, maybe I didn’t post the correct thing. So that’s why I went to the deferred to the apple. So is there no way to change that? That’s one of my questions. Is there any way to change the individual artwork for on Apple for your particular guests? Yeah, and I’ve changed my artwork since I launched so it’s really even more of a bummer because I would prefer the new artwork to be shipped
Elsie Escobar 24:40
if that’s the case for you. Now that’s a question that you need to put to your host. So that you can go back and you can say like my old artwork still showing up what’s happening here. Can I get a little bit of help? Sometimes it’s due to the size the the weight The artwork can sometimes clog up the pipes. So it needs to be less than 500 kilobits, the just the main, actually both that episode artwork and the main thing. Mind you though, yes Apple is annoying. Apple is the large gorilla in the room, the big white gorilla, whatever pink or pink elephant however you want to call whatever animal they are. But at the same time, though, Spotify supports episode artwork. I also amazon music and audible, both supply that support episode artwork. There are some of those are the bigger ones that are supporting that episode artwork. So in that respect, it’s nice to see it. I personally really support it. But the thing with Apple, and this is when it’s going to become incredibly annoying for most of you who are on this call, is that regardless, it the episode artwork is supported in some views in Apple podcasts. Not in every view. In some views, I believe that episode artwork is supported when you are not subscribed to the show, and are browsing the episodes. But when you subscribe to it, it’s no longer there. I believe that that’s the thing. So there’s like, there you have to see the the reason that Apple podcast is so so confusing is because there is the there’s the directory sort of view the apple podcasts directory view when somebody’s browsing through the things and they’re trying to find stuff. And then there is your own library view where it’s when you have grab that and put it in your library or subscribe to it. That’s a different, it shows you differently. So sometimes, like support teams inside a podcast hosts get a lot of people going back and forth going. But I see it on my thing, right? Or I don’t see it here. And it’s like, well, what are you looking at right now? Are you looking at your own library view? Or are you looking at it from the directory point of view where you’re not subscribed? And it’s very hard to see that view once you are subscribed?
So it’s really mind blowing? For a lot of different reasons. That that is? So let’s see. And somebody, why not just use an episode link to your website? Yes, you can definitely do that. But again, it depends on what you want the end user to do. I you know if you have your player right at the top, and what you want them to do is to listen to your podcast. Having that episode right at the top is the best sometimes and our my show notes, the episode artwork goes a little bit lower, because we have a summary right at the top. And so if people go inside of the of our of ci podcast, and also the feed, when they click through, they’re going to see a summary of what that episode is about. And they can quickly read it and then go Oh, either yay or nay. And then continue to either read the show notes or press play. That’s kind of what I feel about that. But if I want to, let’s say, mark it to my listeners to you, folks, then I would just be like, oh, here’s the latest episode. And I would just share either straight out of castor or overcast or Spotify. Or I would use that pod dot link type of service that is out there as well. Like there’s plenty of services that are like that, where what that does is that gives the option of whoever’s in the end user who is already a podcast listener, and really just wants to listen on their own device. That’s the other reason to do it. So you can switch it up, depending upon what you want them to do. Now, the other thing that I didn’t really have you guys focus on and maybe that’s something that you guys can play around and multitask, as I’m talking here is looking at the links that people shared and like let’s say, you know, a lot of y’all share your permalinks meaning that on your website, how long is it going to take you once you are on their website to subscribe to the show? What do you have to do? Wherever you are at this moment to subscribe to that show. And I want you to kind of think do that because that’s going to be a little bit different for somebody who’s watching on zoom. And is or it’s it’s on a phone or an iPad, versus somebody that’s on a computer. So if you have that feeling, oh, gosh, I want to subscribe to the shipping podcast right now. What do you have to do? In order for that to happen? In your computer? What do you do? Like for me, if I see that, what I would do is I would click through, I’m like, Oh, this looks like a really cool show, I would immediately grab my show, my excuse me my phone, and find my podcast app and do a quick search for that show. And subscribe or download whatever episode was in front of me at that time, that is one behavior that I have, when it comes to that. The other behavior when I don’t have my phone, this is what I do. Because sometimes I don’t have my phone next to me or even the iPad, is I will find my computer, I will text myself the link of the website. And then they will get my own text message. And then I’ll open it and I go, Oh, yeah, I was supposed to do that. And then I will download it because I have no way of subscribing. I mean, unless you guys can teach me here, but I’m not sure how I would subscribe to a show if I’m on my computer. So it’s, it’s a little bit funky there. I hope that that was helpful for y’all. Because it’s a it’s a whole
Lena Gothberg 31:33
go to iTunes. You can go to iTunes, you can open it
Elsie Escobar 31:37
on hand, but who does that?
Unknown Speaker 31:39
Elsie Escobar 31:41
Okay, you Sorry. Yes, you can do that. Yeah. Karen. Yes, Karen.
Unknown Speaker 31:45
Yeah, LC just, I use the power press plug in you. Yes. On my own site. And the benefit to that plugin is that it does automatically include subscription links.
Elsie Escobar 31:56
Yes. When you go
Unknown Speaker 31:57
on to your sidebar, right, right. And they have them you can do it like on the sidebar, they also have it underneath the player. And you can add, you can add services as they add them on their end. So
Elsie Escobar 32:11
yeah, so you have some little pop up thingy. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 32:14
Cuz because that that whole thing was meant for WordPress sites.
Elsie Escobar 32:18
So for that mobiles consumption outside of the WordPress sites. Yes. And I have to say that there’s a lot of the players out there for a few podcast hosts now that offer that not as much customization when it comes to the location and the placement and the amount of services that are open and excuse me that are offered for players, because some folks have to decide to do some of the things based on the length of, or the, I would say, not even the length, what the player looks like. And so sometimes you make decisions that are based on Oh, I’m just going to have for four things show up today. Or I’m going to have three things show up today. Something like that, right. So that it’s not like 50,000 links at the bottom of the screen.
Unknown Speaker 33:11
Elsie Escobar 33:13
Okay, there we go. Here we go. All right. So anybody have any other questions for me when it comes to that?
Lena Gothberg 33:20
I have my Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 33:24
So no, no. Oh, can
Unknown Speaker 33:26
I just say congratulations to you and your 300th episode?
Unknown Speaker 33:31
Yeah, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 33:33
I think that’s so awesome. I started to watch your live stream yesterday, and I got pulled away for something. But I just think, oh, that is amazing. And so I caught I loved your little story about your first mic that you started with. And you know, just the playback of your sound and your expressions were just priceless. Because you were just so appalled. It’s like even my first episode, or one of my episodes in particular, listen to it. I’m like, Oh, stop it. Just stop. So it’s really funny to see how you know, your reaction to how you progressed and where you’re at now. So Congratulations once again. Yeah, I
Elsie Escobar 34:08
mean, you would hope right? Because that’s something that I you’d hope that we got. Because I think that that’s the hardest part. Like when you I mean think about that we started in 2014 so it’s it’s a while now it’s it’s a while think about everything that you were doing back then just yourself. I’ve only improved marginally Oh, come on, just I know that you have. But think about what we were doing then and some of the stuff that we haven’t like, what would it be to just be the same? That would be a little weird, I think to be exactly the same and I think that I’m you know, I’m gonna have I have a client that I’m working with here tomorrow. And I have that I have a feel like I’m gonna have to open up and just lay down some hard truths here. You know, because sometimes people come to me for growth, right? That’s one of the number one thing I want to grow my show. I had all the downloads. And you know, I’m looking at their download numbers. And the number one thing is you have to be, you have to understand the reality of the ecosystem, because expectations sometimes are pulled so high, where you’re just like, No, no, no, that’s not I don’t know where you got that idea. But that’s not it. It’s kind of, you’re never it’s not, that’s not gonna happen. Unless, I mean, you could win a lottery, it’s sort of like that. It’s like, you could win the lottery.
Unknown Speaker 35:45
But you see those stories? you hear this? I just saw one the other day on on on our community. And I’m like, I don’t get it. What like,
Elsie Escobar 35:54
you, you know, what am
Unknown Speaker 35:55
I doing wrong? You know, like, what am I not doing? What is their secret sauce? Who did right pay? Like? I think that there’s a specious. But
Elsie Escobar 36:04
I have no, I understand. I think that part of it is that there’s a miscommunication in how in the numbers that we see, and how you don’t get the specifics of one folks sometimes share their numbers, meaning, sometimes you’re gonna get a lot of plays, plays or listens in a platform, like anchor, right? anchor it is its own ecosystem, and they have plays that are happening inside of that ecosystem. That could actually be different, then, as it’s being consumed outside of that. And then that is, is just a different way of measuring. People who are on Soundcloud also have that same thing. There are plays that happen in those places. And then sometimes people share their numbers. I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed this, but most folks share their total numbers. They don’t really ever give you their month dealing numbers like I don’t think I’ve ever seen any. In fact, anybody who’s who has Let’s go, let’s go give him a high five. But on ci podcast, I don’t think anybody has ever said like my latest episode got, you know, X amount in 30 days. Like you always get a total you’ll get like for them in January. I got, I don’t know insert the number. All of my not download numbers. That’s impressive. I mean, I could show you my download numbers for for both the feed and for she podcasts. And it’s impressive, because now we have since 2014. That’s crazy. We have a lot of download numbers. But that’s not my audience. Yeah, go ahead share.
Unknown Speaker 37:51
I do have a quick question as it relates to this. And I brought this up in the coaching last Thursday. And I’ll be brief here because I know you had something you wanted to get into. But one of the things that I probably made a mistake and I just I reacted when people ask me for information I always try and you know, deliver. It’s like, Oh, I need to fulfill that. That question that need. So I had one of my guests, it was one of the best interviews I’ve had. It was delight. She was delightful. I didn’t really know her that well, other than through business.
Unknown Speaker 38:19
Unknown Speaker 38:20
She reached out to me four days after her episode launched and said, Can you share with me what the downloads are? Do you have that information? And at first I was like, Oh, you know, it’s not a lot. And I know she’s a businesswoman. So she I don’t know what her expectations were right. I phrased it in a very positive way. Like, you know, generally my older episodes get more listens. You have evergreen presence than much like Tracy’s evergreen presence through the website with your links, etc. So I said, well, in four days, you have, you know, 60, you know, downloads, and I said think of it is speaking to 60 people and right, it was like, Oh, that’s fun. And that’s all I got back from her. And I wrote her kind of a detailed email, just really trying to be encouraging to her, you know, and thank her for a time again, and then I got nothing. It was like, you know, crickets. So does anybody else here share their downloads? And if so, if they’re not a lot, how do you know? Like, how do you frame that? So that you’re managing expectations of someone who is expecting maybe hundreds if not 1000s?
Unknown Speaker 39:24
Elsie Escobar 39:25
That’s a great question. Cheryl. I will open up the floor because I’d like to see your thoughts lovely ladies, because I know hey, I have my way of dealing with that. But I’d love to hear what you think about that.
Jennie Wetter 39:38
So I don’t get asked very often and i i do our podcasts for our nonprofit so I’m generally working with other people in that space. Better, you know, on my level, so I’ve only been asked like once or twice if they wanted it for like a funder report but other People don’t tend to ask, they’re just really excited for the opportunity to get their message out. And I generally just frame it like, you know, after like a month we generally see episodes have about. And that’s generally what people seem to be happy with. They just kind of want to know, like what to expect. So they’ll be like, hey, after a month, we usually have about 500 downloads per episode, and then we will see it grow as it goes further out. So, you know, and everybody says, that seems to work for people.
Elsie Escobar 40:34
I like that.
Unknown Speaker 40:37
Elsie Escobar 40:39
Tina, I see you around. Tina, do you have something to say? No.
Unknown Speaker 40:43
Now I’m gonna say quick. I only had Hi everybody. I only had one person recently. And he was on my show, and then a friend of my podcast friend, and I guess he was comparing. And, you know, it was four days in it was the same thing. And I was like, you know, it’s, it’s not a true number. I mean, four days, it’s like, you know, so I basically did again, what is it Genie? Jenny Harrell, any I’m sorry. So I basically did the same thing I said, I normally get about this per month. And it’s going to be about this per episode, because it was like, really like, and that was the first time in so long. I mean, I’ve been, I feel like I’ve been ancient. So it was really interesting. So I mean, I’ve been definitely asked the monthly before, but not from guests. So that was the first time it was like comparison, like I was on this show when that show. And I was like,
Unknown Speaker 41:35
That’s rude, first of all. And this was the first time I asked, but she was also the first one who did a lot of promotion on her episode. So I felt compelled to give that to her. And she’s a very, very busy businesswoman. So she’s thinking, Wait, I spent an hour and 15 minutes of my time, I did all this promotion. And like, she’s probably thinking, you know, they didn’t really monetize very well for her as far as if she thinks about what kind of leads she’s getting. I don’t know. And she’s not the kind of person which really surprised me in her non response. So I’d love to hear anybody. Thank you for sharing that, too. It’s interesting. And it was four days and your first one, because it was four days. And my first one, but I’d love to hear what everybody else has to share if you care, too. And yeah, I’ll take I’ll take your answers off. camera off mic
Elsie Escobar 42:26
off camera? No, I mean, it, you know, is having somebody asked you about your download numbers. It’s very vulnerable. It’s very like, it’s like, if somebody I mean, in some ways, not so much now. But if like so it’s like, how old are you? Like, randomly out of nowhere, like, or like, how much do you weigh? You know what I mean, you’re like, that it feels so invasive. Right. So then, like in that respect, I think that one way that I really liked the way that Jenny and Tina framed it would be to really let them know, even from the get go, Hey, reach back out to me in 30 days, because the length of how I gauge how the content is doing is based on this amount of time, not on this amount of time, because this one isn’t really a true example of my audience, or a true example of the reach that this podcast has, like, that’s something that you can start to frame. The other thing that I would do is, you know, we have those download stats that we share on the feed a lot. And the mean, and median number is the one that you need to really focus on, I can’t remember right now at the top of my head, which what the, the median number is, which is 100. I, the last one of the last times that I remembered was 120 downloads per episode per month. So if you get 120 downloads per episode per month, that means that you are better than 50% of the shows out there. That’s how much like that’s how good you’re doing. And you would frame it in that respect. So if you think about it from that, then you can start to really tell the story of what your show does, or what your shows reach is to say that out of the you know, we’re better than 50% of the shows, and my you know, whatever. And like you can you can frame it based on on that percentage of what that is because this is the reality of podcasts, whatever. And you can give them a little bit of schooling saying like the top if you would like you know, the the top 1% of podcasts get 19,000 downloads per episode per month. That’s 1%. That’s, that’s it. Nobody else does. Everybody else is below that. And I think that that’s what I’m talking about in terms of setting expectations that you can expect that and again, going back to The client that I was talking about before, you know, I’m doing a little bit of research, her download numbers are for sure not in on par with the work that she has been putting into the show. She has a solid show. She has solid guests. But they are. I’m a little bit surprised at what they look like, based on all the things right. And so I’m trying to figure out like, Where’s the disconnect, and I’m still going down that rabbit hole. I also saw that she was featured on a essentially in a listers that she was a guest on an A listers podcast. That is well I guess now she could be a little bit of a b Lister, but she’s an athlete. And that she’s she’s now has her own show. She had, you know, views on YouTube with said person she had she was taught she had a total like live conversation with this sort of suit famous athlete woman who is now doing a podcast. And I saw no no reflection of her being on this podcast in her download numbers like at all, like zero, like, almost like I was just like, of course, because I did was a jump at some point last year. And I was like very curious. I want to know like, why she got all these downloads, and then now they’re it kind of like went back. And nothing. I mean, zero. I was a little bit astounded. And I don’t know like, you know, I don’t know what that is, is it because people are not finding her I’m still doing research on her. So I haven’t gone down the website aspect of things only listened to her show. But based on listening to her show that she’s not doing anything that’s like would immediately turn me off. In fact, it’s it’s a very solid show, I have a couple of little things that I’m going to give her. But obviously there’s a disconnect between her message and her heard recordings, and whatever is happening digitally whatever’s going out into the world. And I think one of the key things that I’m going to give her her feedback on is for her to stop producing so much content, because she hasn’t gotten the marketing piece yet.
And it’s not she’s not new. from what I gather, she’s been around since 2016. So there’s a huge, there’s a huge amount of content of evergreen content that she can market the crap out of. And she’s spending most of the time creating constant content coming out, coming out coming out. But she’s not figured out that she’s needs the outreach piece, she needs the visibility, she needs to make sure she gets an audience. That’s the most important thing for her right now, instead of getting more shows out. Does that make sense? It might feel a little weird for me to say like, stop producing so much like, go back to two times a month, go back to once a month, promote the crap out of it. Use the hours that you spend editing, and producing and finding guests and doing all the stuff and making your images use all of that time to promote your back catalogue. If that’s the if that’s you know, the the bread and butter for what you’re trying to do, especially if you’re trying to get your audience to continue to move, not saying for you to quit, still do it. But you have to solve that piece. And obviously, you don’t have time we don’t have a lot of us don’t have time to do everything. So what is the most important thing for us to do right now? For to get that goal. And for her. It’s like from what she gathered to me, obviously, growth and sponsorship, those two things are not going to happen if you don’t invest the time on doing that. And you just keep on putting the product out and you don’t never ever pay attention to how you’re going to get more visible.
Unknown Speaker 49:05
How do we consult with you or hire you? I mean, I take it you’re coaching her on a on a one to one?
Unknown Speaker 49:12
Unknown Speaker 49:12
How do we get ahold of you for that?
Elsie Escobar 49:16
On my website, I have like a, I have an in depth session in there. It’s like a 90 minute I think Lina has. Lina has experienced that Tina Conroy has also experienced and Jenny has also experienced some of that.
Unknown Speaker 49:29
So like, Brian, you victarion you explain.
Elsie Escobar 49:36
Yeah, because it’s like, it is really a challenge to be able to, to, to really gather like the impact of that. And data is very important, which is one of the reasons Lina that I was asking you like, what is the behavior of people when they’re clicking through the LinkedIn stuff. And something that I’m really intrigued in? is like, what is the thing that really gets the most visibility on a post. Like in terms of social of marketing, I’m not talking about your podcast, I’m talking about marketing, the show getting more people’s eyes understanding of what the show is asking you questions? Is it when you have like a really great image? Is it when you ask a leading question about your show? Is it when you create an audiogram? based on whatever you want to put out there? And I don’t want you to think about it. Like, if you create an audiogram for one episode, you now have to create an audio ground for every single episode. I’m wondering, or have the curiosity to see if number one, anybody listened to it, if you got feedback off of it, if there’s something that you can adjust from the, like the graphic that you’re using, and have it be a different type of thing. In it, when it comes to leading a leading question that you post on social would that actually be able to, to get somebody to engage with your content in a different way than before. I was just, you know, we’ve been for Lipson for their lives inside of things. We’ve been really pushing for people to sign up to like, get signed up through audible and amazon music. And we need to do that, because the majority and I would say over, I actually don’t really have the data, but let’s just say a large percentage, like beyond what you would ever imagined, has not set that destination up for their show. So they’re missing out on that entire new audience. The podcasters are not getting the memo, the Lipson podcasters are not getting the memo to, to just set the damn thing up and then have your show on Audible and amazon music. I mean, it’s the easiest thing ever to do that. And they’re not doing it. So what do we need to do to get people to engage with that, at least to post to see Oh, my gosh, I have to do it. Right. So one of the ones that just that got like the biggest return January of the post that I made was just a question. Is your show there? Raise your hand. Right, Lana, you saw that, and you you posted on it. It’s the one that got the most people engaged. We had like over 1000 people in terms of reach both on, on on Facebook. And on Twitter. It was like huge people were constantly engaging, and then more conversations started to happen. It’s like, What is this thing? And like, oh, here’s the thing you can sign up here. And much better than just sign up for audible? Or sign up? Did you set this destination up? Right? That’s a good follow up, and a continuance of that. But I was really intrigued that it was really a sentence, and nothing else. So we have been getting more people to sign up. But I don’t know if the needle has moved enough. Because what we don’t have, and I think that this is the hardest thing for everybody is when you want to get the message out to the most amount of people. How do you do that? Like, how do you do that? How do you get that message out? Is it? I don’t know what else people can do. Right? If you go on, it’s not about tweeting more. It’s not about being on LinkedIn more. It’s not about sending emails, it’s I think it’s about a collective approach of being able to do all of these things, not just that one thing. So I want you to think about this, from the perspective that everybody is going through this, we’re all vying for people’s attention. And then we’re vying for their, for them to actually have us in their ears. So I think it’s a goal to be able to look at your data or whatever download numbers you have, and be able to really like look at them and go, Oh, gosh, this is really great. I have these people that are listening to me, and how do you nurture them? And how do you get the word out? Right? There’s like, all kinds of different ways to be able to do that. But that curiosity never stops, at least not for me. At all.
What are you saying? Lena, I never went to see the destinations again. Oh, yeah. I mean, you’re right. And I think that that’s another that’s another user behavior. But see you right now are accessing your end you as an end user. That’s what we have to do. We have to do that for our listeners. Like what is the listener? Just like you said, it’s a dark it’s a black box. Right? That’s for a lot of us. That’s not a black box for many people that are your audience it is. Yeah, look at that. Clara said adding my podcast to Ghana grew my Facebook page, more than Any other thing I’ve done additional destinations can be huge. Yeah. And you won’t know if you don’t try. And you also don’t know what’s gonna resonate, or if you need to publicly, like, share some of other destinations for people. The reason that I loved you know, audible so much too is because again, and I’ve talked about this often is that I’m, I’m a big audio book reader. And I know that there’s a, there’s a huge amount of people who listen to audiobooks that have never listened to them to podcasts before. And just having the option inside of that app in a place, you’re already going that that has podcasts in there. It’s such a game changer. And it’s a different conversation. I’m not here to sell you, who may already be listening in your favorite podcast app to switch to Audible. Like, why would you even want to do that like
Unknown Speaker 55:52
Elsie Escobar 55:53
Not me. But for a friend, or somebody who is like, Oh, I love audiobooks. And I can go Oh, my gosh, you do? my podcast is there. You can listen to me on Audible. And it’s just so much easier to sell them in that respect. Instead of thinking of, Oh, I have to get them to download the podcast app, they have to use this thing. They have to use the other thing. It’s already there. It’s just another way of looking at it. And Clara says, oh, bashfully, confess, I don’t know what did you say? I don’t know. I don’t look at downloads regularly. Yeah, neither do we, we don’t either. Usually, when you look at the gone, like the destinations inside, if you do have a $20 or more account, usually advanced stats, and most podcast hosting platforms do have a little more detail. So if you go in there, and you see where those downloads are coming from, you usually can see where those audiences are. That is something else that I see whenever I work with folks is that I really try to go look at where the user agents are coming from, like where the download numbers are coming from. And that also tells me a story. And I can then be able to assess better as to this is where you are missing the boat. This is where it’s not working. For me in this client. The first two destinations. In the total, when I was looking at their stats, and total stats, I’m not looking at month, or latest I’m looking in their totality was Chrome, and another browser, those are the two top destinations that to me is a red flag, there’s something not working properly here. Because the top few destinations, at least the number one and the number two need to come from a podcast app, because that is actually more reflective of audience. People are listening, people have invested in you people are taking you with them, you can continue to build off of that, that is solid listenership. When I see Chrome, or Safari, or any of those crawler bots at the top, that’s a sign that folk that they’re doing a really great job at marketing their show on the internet, like on the web, like on websites. And then so folks will, will I’m sure she’s sending people over. But she’s not converting them into actual listeners that are going to be using their phone. That said, though, there are populations. So if the podcast was a type of demographic, or a type of psychographic, right Atlanta, where you’re offering a specific type of person, those stats will be higher. But for most folks, that’s not the case. So that’s why when I look at that, I can’t like generalize it and say, everybody needs to not have chrome be their number one user agent or place that you know, where people are listening, I can’t say that, I have to look at your show. What’s your demographic? Who are the people that are actually listening to you, where you’re sharing your show what type of thing you’re sharing in social media, like what the link, all of that is going to reflect back to me information. So I can say, Oh, my God, you’re totally you should definitely share this link. Or you should consider adding your show to to Audible, or you should continue like Ghana, like, it seems like that would be a really wonderful place to really focus on. So all of that is information for me to move from, to advise better in terms of growth, and you need to do that for yourself. Like, you don’t need me to do that. You do that?
Unknown Speaker 59:41
Look at your own stats. Oh my god.
Unknown Speaker 59:45
Oh my god,
Elsie Escobar 59:46
we have one minute. Does anybody have a question for me? Other than me, just Yes, Tina.
Unknown Speaker 59:51
Okay, I have a question. Um, so, um, Danny does my editing. You know, Danny, I know Daniel, and so he’s Starting, which has been nice like, well, he didn’t in December, he did like, a loom. And he looked over some of my stats. And he said, and I’m trying to find that I have an unusual, I don’t know numbers, but I have an unusual listeners in India, and to try to grasp those people but and to think more about selling, selling, sharing to Android. And I don’t know, like, like, I need to take that further. Like I obviously, and I’m an iOS person. So all my marketing is all apple or like, well, not Apple, but yeah, like I mean, I I hate Apple, I listen to podcasts on overcast for myself, and Spotify. Yeah. But when people and now and I’ve been pushing, like, I’ll push people to my website, or to Spotify lately to try to just because it’s more universal, I find a lot of my listeners on Spotify, especially the yoga teachers, they have playlists and stuff. How would I increase that area? like India itself? I don’t know if he’s saying directly to India. I mean, that’s a deeper conversation with him, or is it like do how do I make sure that I’m in more of the androids? On? Okay, so
Elsie Escobar 1:01:17
are you are you hosted with Lipson? Yeah, yeah. Okay, some things coming. I don’t know what it is. But it is gonna be great. Okay, so that something’s coming. Something’s coming. So just hold your horses. Those are stuff happening when it comes to that, that’s going to really expand the Android side of things. Very soon, so just keep an eye out possibly, like mid. Oh, my God, why is Jessica calling me I’m not done yet. I’m gonna leave her alone here for a second. Okay. So I would say class cross platform thing, Spotify, you can go down on Spotify, like really strongly push spot the Spotify link a little bit more, because that is cross platform. There’s a lot more people that listen to that Google podcasts, it’s another one is cross platform, you can definitely use that. In fact, if you start to re like move up into the algorithms for Google podcasts, the cool thing is that when people are searching for you on Chrome, it comes up like if you if they put like, even if they put like, in fact, you should definitely try it out, put Tina Conroy podcast, just Tina Conroy podcast, in the search bar, and then see what happens. In that second tier there, there’s a little place where you can have folks like, Listen to your stuff, which is amazing. Straight from Google podcast. So that’s something that you can definitely do make sure that you are using things like amazon music is again, cross platform, and so is spot and excuse me, audible is the same thing. There’s so many that are cross platform now that that’s a way to get people to engage with Android. But if I were to say straight up Indian audiences, obviously Ghana is one of them, because you can listen to Ghana, and you can have folks like that area, it’s all around Asia. And you have all of those, those apps in terms of Asia, and Spotify is still big. I mean, it’s it’s a worldwide kind of thing, they are definitely moving up into that respective. And I think that that’s something for you to really focus on. Oh, and the other thing is, YouTube. So with the destinations, I don’t know if you set those up. But if you do set up a because you can set up different channels, and that’s a different conversation for a different day. And I’m going to like, wrap it now wrap it down now. But one thing that folks are doing lately on YouTube is that they’re creating channels specifically for certain things. So I don’t want you to think that like that Tina Conroy’s channel, like with all of your beautiful things, and like, let’s say you have yoga classes, and like, let’s say you have, like, you know, a retreat thing that you did, and you did another audiogram. And you don’t have to have it all in that one channel. What folks are doing lately, especially larger brands, is you have your regular channel for yourself, like the LC channel, right? So there’s like, it’s LC, and I go in there, and I do like, you know, tech reviews on microphones, and blah, blah, blah, like, that’s my main channel. And then I can add LCS podcasts, or podcasts or whatever. And then in that other channel that is connected to my LCS channel, it’s just all my podcasts. That’s what it is. And so you can link a lot of those. Like, you can have the same admins, and you can really curate those so that they become just for that.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:45
So a question on YouTube, and I know I’m gonna let you go. Is that
Elsie Escobar 1:04:48
playlist? Yes, Clara. Sorry, go ahead.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:51
So on YouTube, though, you’re only linking the audio of your podcast. I don’t see a video. Okay. Okay.
Elsie Escobar 1:04:57
Yes. So then that would be like It would just be the name of your show, it would be the name of your show. And kind of
Unknown Speaker 1:05:04
like a highlight. It’s sort of like a highlight on Instagram. It’s like its own channel. Yes. And Okay.
Elsie Escobar 1:05:09
Yes, exactly. Okay. And yes, and it would be a static image of your artwork, which you can put it, you can actually put us rectangular image in there, and you can do it that way. What it does entail is you going in optimizing the description for those. So you would have to go in there and just make sure that the description inside of that it does pull your show notes, which is great. But what it doesn’t do is optimize for YouTube. And that’s where like, at this point, like in terms of workflow, I’m going to be doing that for the feed at some point, I want to have the feed on YouTube and have it be its own thing, but it’s not going to be just like set it and forget it, I’m going to be a little bit more mindful about it. Maybe even changing the titles of the episodes a little bit so that they become a little more search better at first search in terms of that, maybe thinking a little bit deeper into what artwork I want to be showing, maybe and of course, changing the first couple of sentences at the top to be something that I really want to show. That would be really great, too. So you have to be a little bit more mindful about that. And you know, going back to the interview with the client that I have, and the A Lister athlete person, I was just like, oh my god, in that video, they never linked back to the they never just mentioned her name. They never even gave her a website. Like if I wanted to know more about her. I needed to know that. So there’s a lot of missing things that that’s a whole other conversation.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:42
Yeah. Thank you, though. Yeah.
Elsie Escobar 1:06:43
And are those changes you would make inside the Lipson platform? Yeah. Yes, you can add, I believe you can add multiple YouTube destinations and Lipson and yes, there’s a rectangular area to put the stuff in there.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:56
Woman Oh, the God and the Ghana thing. Is that like a separate thing you have to like, is that through Lipson?
Elsie Escobar 1:07:03
Yes, you just add the destination. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Yeah. That is it. That’s awesome. All right. Well, thank you, everybody. I don’t want to keep everybody else going on here. We’ve gone a little extra and I don’t know why Jessica is calling me.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:17
Elsie Escobar 1:07:19
All right. Thank you, everybody. I’m so happy to see you. And also Seville. Sevilla Morgan. I love to see your name the way you say your name. Oh look happy faces Lena. And I will chat with you guys very soon,
Unknown Speaker 1:07:33
Unknown Speaker 1:07:34
All right. Bye.